Discussion:
Nerts - not getting all of the email, what's reasonable alternative?
(too old to reply)
pyotr filipivich
2018-03-03 17:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Here's the problem
Weekly notification email arrives with a message from El Honcho,
and the schedule included (forwarded from Yahoo Groups)

Only in Eudora do I not get the last half of the schedule. I get
the "footer"


Visit Your Group
Yahoo! Groups • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

__,_._,___

so in theory, I'm getting the email. I don't get the "This
message is too large - do you really want to download it?tag either.

Just those minor important parts.

Not sure I can ask him to change his procedures. Which
considering that Eudora hasn't been updated since "ought six" means
"Maybe it's my mail prog?"
As I have been using Eudora since the 90s (earliest I found was
1997) - that is a whole lot of "I'm used to it this way" - so changing
would be a serious pain.

But - alternatives to Eudora? I have T-bird, it fetches the
whole message, but, I didn't like the interface when I was using it
for other reasons.

pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
As I heard it put years ago, Leading indicators have predicted 11
of the last 8 recessions.
Not to mention 24 of the last 6 bull markets.
Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-03-03 20:45:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 03 Mar 2018 09:28:34 -0800, pyotr filipivich <***@mindspring.com>
declaimed the following:

You are probably more interested in the bottom half of my response...
Post by pyotr filipivich
Here's the problem
Weekly notification email arrives with a message from El Honcho,
and the schedule included (forwarded from Yahoo Groups)
Only in Eudora do I not get the last half of the schedule. I get
the "footer"
Visit Your Group
Yahoo! Groups • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
__,_._,___
so in theory, I'm getting the email. I don't get the "This
message is too large - do you really want to download it?tag either.
Just those minor important parts.
This is basically the same complaint you posted about back on January
18 (and a second thread on January 20).

In all three threads, the complaint refers to a Yahoo group -- Which
leads, again, to having to determine just how that group is composing its
messages such that Eudora is unable to render parts of them.

On January 21 you posted a snippet
Post by pyotr filipivich
I just did that. Not being conversant in HTML, am I correct in
assuming that the following
{quote}
<div style="color: white; clear: both;"/>__,_._,___</div>
</body></html>
</div></body></html>
{End quote}
indicates the bottom/end of the file?
I would probably need the whole thing in an HTML editor (pity my
ancient copy of HomeSite 4 [pre-Adobe buy-out and burial] doesn't work
newer computers), but if the message really does have

</body></html>
</div></body></html>

then the message is malformed. There should only be ONE </body> and ONE
</html> in any single HTML file. Similarly, there should only be ONE <html>
and ONE <body> somewhere near the top.

Many web-browsers are quite relaxed about enforcing correct HTML, and
will do a best-guess rendering when finding invalid structures. Something
that does reasonable validation will either throw a lot of errors at one,
or exclude content.

Firefox displays all three paragraphs in:

-=-=-=-
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>This is a properly located paragraph in the proper body</p>

<html>
<head>
<title>erroneous embedded</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>This is a paragraph within an embedded HTML document</p>
</body>
</html>

<p>This is a paragraph in the correct body, after the improper</p>
</body>
</html>
-=-=-=-

The "free" HTML-Kit 292 (goes back to 2004) reports (apologies for
format -- it exports as CSV):

<!--
"Warning",
"1","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","10","1","0","discarding
unexpected <html>"

"Warning",
"2","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","11","1","0","<head>
isn't allowed in <body> elements"

"Comment",
"3","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","0","0","0","<body>
previously mentioned"

"Warning",
"4","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","12","1","0","<title>
isn't allowed in <body> elements"

"Comment",
"5","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","0","0","0","<body>
previously mentioned"

"Warning",
"6","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","13","1","0","</head>
isn't allowed in <body> elements"

"Comment",
"7","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","0","0","0","<body>
previously mentioned"

"Warning",
"8","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","14","1","0","discarding
unexpected <body>"

"Warning",
"9","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","7","1","0","content
occurs after end of body"

"Warning",
"10","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","7","1","0","content
occurs after end of body"

"Warning",
"11","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","21","1","0","discarding
unexpected </html>"

"Comment",
"12","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","0","0","0","Doctype
given is "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN""
"Comment",
"13","C:\Users\Wulfraed\Documents\HomeSite\Untitled.htm","Untitled.htm","0","0","0","Document
content looks like HTML 4.01 Strict"
-->

and turns the result into:

-=-=-=-
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled</title>
<title>erroneous embedded</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>This is a properly located paragraph in the proper body</p>
<p>This is a paragraph within an embedded HTML document</p>
<p>This is a paragraph in the correct body, after the
improper</p>
</body>
</html>
-=-=-=-

I don't know how to send that to myself as an HTML email to see how
Eudora responds to the incorrect formatting (back when plain-text SMTP was
available, I could telnet to the server and hand enter the entire message
per RFC rules; but now that TLS authentication is needed I can no longer do
that by hand).
Post by pyotr filipivich
Not sure I can ask him to change his procedures. Which
considering that Eudora hasn't been updated since "ought six" means
"Maybe it's my mail prog?"
It's badly formed HTML (based on your snippet) that should not be
allowed out into the world, and is only working in some applications
because they are ignoring errors when parsing the contents, and keeping
what they can.

I can easily see a stricter rendering engine finding the embedded
<html> tag, and SKIPPING everything until it finds a matching </html>, and
only then rending the rest of the message as normal.

********************************************************************
Post by pyotr filipivich
But - alternatives to Eudora? I have T-bird, it fetches the
whole message, but, I didn't like the interface when I was using it
for other reasons.
The only serious attempt at a Eudora replacement was Odysseus ->
MailForge, and its developer retired in the midst of v3 in July of 2012,
and the team he handed it over to has vanished from the Internet.

Best alternative(s) I could suggest?

Obtain a recent version of Forte Agentt, and configure its email
functionality. (I don't recall if the version your headers claim you are
using supported email, and if it did, it may not handle the current
security/authentication modes).

OR: Install Oracle VirtualBox (or similar), Install your preferred
Linux flavor inside the virtual machine, Explore the offerings...

Debian Stretch repository shows

alpine (apache license PINE) text mode email client

claws-mail described as a fast/lightweight client
"Claws Mail is a powerful and full-featured mail client formerly called
Sylpheed-Claws. It is also extensible using loadable plugins, which can
provide support for additional features, like other storage formats, feed
reader, calendar management, mail filtering, etc."

kmail described as a full-featured graphical client
"KMail supports multiple accounts, mail filtering and email encryption.
The program let you configure your workflow and it has good integration
into KDE (Plasma Desktop) but is also useable with other Desktop
Envionments."

mutt another text mode client
"Mutt is a sophisticated text-based Mail User Agent. Some highlights:

* MIME support (including RFC1522 encoding/decoding of 8-bit message
headers and UTF-8 support).
* PGP/MIME support (RFC 2015).
* Advanced IMAP client supporting SSL encryption and SASL authentication.
* POP3 support.
* ESMTP support.
* Message threading (both strict and non-strict).
* Keybindings are configurable, default keybindings are much like ELM;
Mush and PINE-like ones are provided as examples.
* Handles MMDF, MH and Maildir in addition to regular mbox format.
* Messages may be (indefinitely) postponed.
* Colour support.
* Highly configurable through easy but powerful rc file."
Note: Eudora mailboxes are a variant of mbox -- and might be
importable...

sylphweed Another "light weight" client
"Sylpheed is an e-mail client which aims for:
* Quick response
* Graceful, and sophisticated interface
* Easy configuration, intuitive operation
* Abundant features
The appearance and interface are similar to some popular e-mail clients for
Windows, such as Outlook Express or so.
The interface is also designed to emulate the mailers on Emacsen, and
almost all commands are accessible with the keyboard."


Hmm, I've got kmail installed, but it is giving error messages about
creating SMTP jobs for test send, and didn't fetch a message I'd sent to
the account... Might be some conflict with not running the KDE desktop,
using xfce instead... Not happy at having the compose window pop up in
random location -- I prefer Eudora's docked mode.

Installed claw... and managed to configure that to where it would
receive/send on one of my addresses. As with kmail, it insists upon opening
new read and compose windows rather than Eudora's nice overlaying docked
capability (and I'm not sure if I can get rid of the preview pane)
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
***@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
Ajo Wissink
2018-03-04 14:06:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 03 Mar 2018 09:28:34 -0800, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
But - alternatives to Eudora? I have T-bird, it fetches the
whole message, but, I didn't like the interface when I was using it
for other reasons.
Most modern email clients are not so strict with the rules as Eudora
is and don't have the same problem when they encounter a mal-formed
message.

Take a look at Pandora. It's under active development and looks and
acts already very much like Eudora. The author is Brana Bulenovic who
is well known by Eudora users for his many useful Eudora plug-ins.

http://www.drivehq.com/web/brana/plugins.htm
--
Ajo Wissink
Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-03-04 16:04:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 04 Mar 2018 10:06:42 -0400, Ajo Wissink
Post by Ajo Wissink
Take a look at Pandora. It's under active development and looks and
acts already very much like Eudora. The author is Brana Bulenovic who
is well known by Eudora users for his many useful Eudora plug-ins.
Might be time to try it myself (though the demo gave me fits... Check
mail was hanging -- I ended up installing WireShark [thought I had that
already but apparently it was lost when my Win7 drive died, and didn't make
it into the Win10 install list] to monitor the connection packets.

Compared a Eudora check-mail with the Pandora check-mail and found the
latter was getting some -ERR response to STARTTLS (Eudora was configured
for "If Available, STARTTLS" so I had set Pandora the same way). Apparently
Eudora is not attempting to use TLS while Pandora always was... Worked once
I said "Never". {On the other side of the story -- discovered the current
server supports APOP rather than just plain PASSword}

Needs more study before I consider a bug report for it...

Price looks okay (especially compared to full HTML-Kit <G>)
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
***@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-03-06 18:56:12 UTC
Permalink
Talking to myself in public...

On Sun, 04 Mar 2018 11:04:21 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber
<***@ix.netcom.com> declaimed the following:

Went and registered Pandora (since the free/demo only handled one
personality, one signature, one filter, etc.). Imported Eudora filters,
personalities, address book -- though had some troubles with the latter...
took three attempts to get the contents I wanted.

Suspect I'll need to recreate some filters... Eudora allowed for up to
two match criteria, with AND/OR conjunctions. Pandora appears to allow for
multiple match criteria -- but are they considered OR or AND situations?
Big difference.

Managed to get the compose window to appear within main Pandora scheme
(similar to how I run Eudora -- mailboxes/compose/read windows expanded
inside main application)... But filter report is still a floating window...
(boo hiss)
Post by Dennis Lee Bieber
Compared a Eudora check-mail with the Pandora check-mail and found the
latter was getting some -ERR response to STARTTLS (Eudora was configured
for "If Available, STARTTLS" so I had set Pandora the same way). Apparently
Eudora is not attempting to use TLS while Pandora always was... Worked once
I said "Never". {On the other side of the story -- discovered the current
server supports APOP rather than just plain PASSword}
Needs more study before I consider a bug report for it...
I do think I need to report this... Earthlink's POP3 server does not,
as I recall, list STARTTLS in the CAPAbility response, yet "If Available"
is always sending a STARTTLS command which gets rejected, causing Pandora
to hang on the check.


We'll see how things go -- I've got Pandora set to leave-on-server for
7 days, while Eudora is set for 2 days (to ensure Eudora is still the
primary control of my mail accounts, but still ensure both clients have a
shot at the messages for comparison).



<html>
<body>
<font face="Lucida Console"><br><br>
-- <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Wulfraed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dennis Lee Bieber&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AF6VN<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>***@ix.netcom.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/" eudora="autourl">HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/</a></font></body>
</html>
Dennis Lee Bieber
2018-03-06 19:00:02 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 13:56:12 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber
Post by Dennis Lee Bieber
<html>
<body>
<font face="Lucida Console"><br><br>
-- <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Wulfraed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dennis Lee Bieber&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; AF6VN<br>
</html>
Apologies for that mess...

Apparently unifying Eudora and Pandora signatures caused some
corruption (I have Agent referencing Eudora signatures)
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
***@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
pyotr filipivich
2018-03-05 00:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis Lee Bieber
On Sat, 03 Mar 2018 09:28:34 -0800, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
But - alternatives to Eudora? I have T-bird, it fetches the
whole message, but, I didn't like the interface when I was using it
for other reasons.
Most modern email clients are not so strict with the rules as Eudora
is and don't have the same problem when they encounter a mal-formed
message.
Take a look at Pandora. It's under active development and looks and
acts already very much like Eudora. The author is Brana Bulenovic who
is well known by Eudora users for his many useful Eudora plug-ins.
http://www.drivehq.com/web/brana/plugins.htm
Thanks for the reference.
--
pyotr filipivich
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