Status of HERMES project to replace Eudora

[Ignataz]

Any opinions about this?

Nick Werner-Matavka
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch/x/22716233#/
We have a "price" of $70 Am. per seat; anything more than that goes to
support the further development of the project

I've contributed very modestly in the past and I am, of course grateful there is a prospect for it to be updated.

But I am surprised by the lack of commercial and developer interest. Many (many!) more modest and obscure projects get the support they need.

Eudora needs multiple dedicated developers, support for bug fixes and installation -- you know, like a real product. Port it, make an enterprise version, keep up with Windows editions (11 is here!) and Google authentication (is nigh!). The value of a new version without the promise of continued support is dubious.

- Charles

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Tue, 31 May 2022 17:27:15 -0700 (PDT), Ignataz

Post by Ignataz
Any opinions about this?

I note a distinct lack of mentioning Pandora as a desktop mail client.
http://www.drivehq.com/web/brana/pandora.htm

Even though I've installed the SSL update for Eudora, the amount of
HTML based posts using character sets not supported by Eudora led me to try
Pandora back around v1.5 or so, and I've been using it since then.

There are a few glitches still present, but for the most part it "looks
like" a modernized Eudora.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Ignataz
Any opinions about this?
Nick Werner-Matavka
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch/x/22716233#/
We have a "price" of $70 Am. per seat; anything more than that goes to
support the further development of the project
I've contributed very modestly in the past and I am, of course grateful there is a prospect for it to be updated.
But I am surprised by the lack of commercial and developer interest. Many (many!) more modest and obscure projects get the support they need.
Eudora needs multiple dedicated developers, support for bug fixes and installation -- you know, like a real product. Port it, make an enterprise version, keep up with Windows editions (11 is here!) and Google authentication (is nigh!). The value of a new version without the promise of continued support is dubious.
- Charles

I don't want to be a downer. I love Eudora and would love to have some bug fixes. But I contributed to previous campaigns and while I was not happy that the project didn't produce something tangible, I was even more disappointed there simply were so few status updates. If I'm not mistaken, there were multiple fundraisers on different platforms and I didn't see reporting of the results from any of them.

Maybe we need to hear a bit about what happened with the previous effort before contributing further?

[Ignataz]

JimH <<I'm grateful for the update to QCSSL (OpenSSL), but as for the rest
I'm not sure much has been achieved other than getting most of the old
Qualcomm code to compile. The result isn't as good, or as complete, as
the original Eudora with the Hermes OpenSSL fix applied>>

So... all these years after Eudora source was released there's nothing -- nothing other than QCSSL

JimH <<But in fairness... "complete" requires libraries that Qualcomm wasn't legally
able to distribute when they released the Eudora source>>

Either the libraries need to be licensed (assuming they are available and up-to-date) or replaced (assuming that's possible). Or some third possibility (IAN a programmer).

But if their unavailability means Eudora can't be updated, HERMES is fake.

One thing that makes me nervous about Pandora as a long term substitute is it seems to be one man show. But he created Pandora from scratch, and maintains it.

How many serious programmers should it take to update and maintained Eudora?

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 09:43:02 -0700 (PDT), Ignataz

Post by Ignataz
Either the libraries need to be licensed (assuming they are available and up-to-date) or replaced (assuming that's possible). Or some third possibility (IAN a programmer).

If you read the linked announcement, the Hermes team /did/ come up with
funding and justification to obtain a license to the current version of one
of the development libraries -- along with finding a willing victim to
spend time learning that GUI framework (apparently Eudora is not directly
using native Win32 nor MFC calls for the GUI, but rather a third-party
package that encapsulates the Windows calls within higher-level widget
concepts and handlers).
https://www.perforce.com/products/stingray unfortunately I can not confirm
cost for that license -- the team implied CD$ 10,000 -- as Perforce does
not provide price estimates on the web page, it is all "contact us".

And that is the crux of the situation: without the expensive license,
the team would have had to recreate the ENTIRE user interface from scratch,
using Win32/MFC. I could easily see that being over 50% of the Eudora
source code that would be thrown out (the SMTP/POP/IMAP stuff is just
sockets programming and not really affected by GUI -- other than the SSL
updates, and they already have the core in the HermSSL code; just strip the
Eudora plug-in and make it native.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Ignataz
JimH <<I'm grateful for the update to QCSSL (OpenSSL), but as for the rest
I'm not sure much has been achieved other than getting most of the old
Qualcomm code to compile. The result isn't as good, or as complete, as
the original Eudora with the Hermes OpenSSL fix applied>>
So... all these years after Eudora source was released there's nothing -- nothing other than QCSSL
JimH <<But in fairness... "complete" requires libraries that Qualcomm wasn't legally
able to distribute when they released the Eudora source>>
Either the libraries need to be licensed (assuming they are available and up-to-date) or replaced (assuming that's possible). Or some third possibility (IAN a programmer).
But if their unavailability means Eudora can't be updated, HERMES is fake.
One thing that makes me nervous about Pandora as a long term substitute is it seems to be one man show. But he created Pandora from scratch, and maintains it.
How many serious programmers should it take to update and maintained Eudora?

I think that will always be the number available + 1.

[Nick Werner-Matavka]

Post by Ignataz
Any opinions about this?
Nick Werner-Matavka
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch/x/22716233#/
We have a "price" of $70 Am. per seat; anything more than that goes to
support the further development of the project
I've contributed very modestly in the past and I am, of course grateful there is a prospect for it to be updated.
But I am surprised by the lack of commercial and developer interest. Many (many!) more modest and obscure projects get the support they need.
Eudora needs multiple dedicated developers, support for bug fixes and installation -- you know, like a real product. Port it, make an enterprise version, keep up with Windows editions (11 is here!) and Google authentication (is nigh!). The value of a new version without the promise of continued support is dubious.
- Charles

I don't want to be a downer. I love Eudora and would love to have some bug fixes. But I contributed to previous campaigns and while I was not happy that the project didn't produce something tangible, I was even more disappointed there simply were so few status updates. If I'm not mistaken, there were multiple fundraisers on different platforms and I didn't see reporting of the results from any of them.
Maybe we need to hear a bit about what happened with the previous effort before contributing further?

The pandemic has been quite a ride, and it has slowed us down hugely, but Team HERMES is still going. We have a real continuation of Eudora for Windows running on a modern PC; if you have been following our story, we have had to change the name (to HERMES Mail), but we are running the historic Eudora 7.1 code base, improved to work with Unicode and modern OpenSSL. This is not a re-creation, but a real revival of QUALCOMM Eudora.

We did a few little fundraisers before Covid hit, and that bought us time to get running, but until now our finances have been essentially a blank slate. The software is now, for all intents and purposes, complete. This time, we have a FIRM commitment to release to our testers on 1 AUGUST of THIS YEAR!

As proof positive that we have a product to release, please see our screenshots: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aLvQTdHW3x01RJG52oPaw-ujni09XyhC/view?usp=sharing and https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vmTxCRbEPdhAPOHJzMrZ5ovtimvDkEFB/view?usp=sharing

If you wish to become a tester and be among the first to get access to this product, please chip in here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch#/

In view of our proven success in this area (albeit delayed), we're aiming for five thousand Canadian dollars this time. That'll allow us to continue developing the Windows version (which will also run on Linux), and begin development on HERMES Mail for Mac.

--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[[e-mail]]

Post by Nick Werner-Matavka

Post by Ignataz
Any opinions about this?
Nick Werner-Matavka
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch/x/22716233#/
We have a "price" of $70 Am. per seat; anything more than that goes to
support the further development of the project
I've contributed very modestly in the past and I am, of course grateful there is a prospect for it to be updated.
But I am surprised by the lack of commercial and developer interest. Many (many!) more modest and obscure projects get the support they need.
Eudora needs multiple dedicated developers, support for bug fixes and installation -- you know, like a real product. Port it, make an enterprise version, keep up with Windows editions (11 is here!) and Google authentication (is nigh!). The value of a new version without the promise of continued support is dubious.
- Charles

I don't want to be a downer. I love Eudora and would love to have some bug fixes. But I contributed to previous campaigns and while I was not happy that the project didn't produce something tangible, I was even more disappointed there simply were so few status updates. If I'm not mistaken, there were multiple fundraisers on different platforms and I didn't see reporting of the results from any of them.
Maybe we need to hear a bit about what happened with the previous effort before contributing further?

The pandemic has been quite a ride, and it has slowed us down hugely, but Team HERMES is still going. We have a real continuation of Eudora for Windows running on a modern PC; if you have been following our story, we have had to change the name (to HERMES Mail), but we are running the historic Eudora 7.1 code base, improved to work with Unicode and modern OpenSSL. This is not a re-creation, but a real revival of QUALCOMM Eudora.
We did a few little fundraisers before Covid hit, and that bought us time to get running, but until now our finances have been essentially a blank slate. The software is now, for all intents and purposes, complete. This time, we have a FIRM commitment to release to our testers on 1 AUGUST of THIS YEAR!
As proof positive that we have a product to release, please see our screenshots: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aLvQTdHW3x01RJG52oPaw-ujni09XyhC/view?usp=sharing and https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vmTxCRbEPdhAPOHJzMrZ5ovtimvDkEFB/view?usp=sharing
If you wish to become a tester and be among the first to get access to this product, please chip in here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch#/
In view of our proven success in this area (albeit delayed), we're aiming for five thousand Canadian dollars this time. That'll allow us to continue developing the Windows version (which will also run on Linux), and begin development on HERMES Mail for Mac.

I'm not in a position to try doing anything with my email in August. I have significant contracts I'm working on and any disruption could be very serious. I'll catch up with you in November.

[Nick Werner-Matavka]

Well, we've got even more screenshots if anyone's curious. It's pretty much a drop-in replacement (really, it's a continuation, so Eudora 7.3), so everything carries over.

https://igg.me/at/hermes80

Post by Nick Werner-Matavka

Post by Ignataz
Any opinions about this?
Nick Werner-Matavka
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch/x/22716233#/
We have a "price" of $70 Am. per seat; anything more than that goes to
support the further development of the project
I've contributed very modestly in the past and I am, of course grateful there is a prospect for it to be updated.
But I am surprised by the lack of commercial and developer interest. Many (many!) more modest and obscure projects get the support they need.
Eudora needs multiple dedicated developers, support for bug fixes and installation -- you know, like a real product. Port it, make an enterprise version, keep up with Windows editions (11 is here!) and Google authentication (is nigh!). The value of a new version without the promise of continued support is dubious.
- Charles

I don't want to be a downer. I love Eudora and would love to have some bug fixes. But I contributed to previous campaigns and while I was not happy that the project didn't produce something tangible, I was even more disappointed there simply were so few status updates. If I'm not mistaken, there were multiple fundraisers on different platforms and I didn't see reporting of the results from any of them.
Maybe we need to hear a bit about what happened with the previous effort before contributing further?

The pandemic has been quite a ride, and it has slowed us down hugely, but Team HERMES is still going. We have a real continuation of Eudora for Windows running on a modern PC; if you have been following our story, we have had to change the name (to HERMES Mail), but we are running the historic Eudora 7.1 code base, improved to work with Unicode and modern OpenSSL. This is not a re-creation, but a real revival of QUALCOMM Eudora.
We did a few little fundraisers before Covid hit, and that bought us time to get running, but until now our finances have been essentially a blank slate. The software is now, for all intents and purposes, complete. This time, we have a FIRM commitment to release to our testers on 1 AUGUST of THIS YEAR!
As proof positive that we have a product to release, please see our screenshots: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aLvQTdHW3x01RJG52oPaw-ujni09XyhC/view?usp=sharing and https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vmTxCRbEPdhAPOHJzMrZ5ovtimvDkEFB/view?usp=sharing
If you wish to become a tester and be among the first to get access to this product, please chip in here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch#/
In view of our proven success in this area (albeit delayed), we're aiming for five thousand Canadian dollars this time. That'll allow us to continue developing the Windows version (which will also run on Linux), and begin development on HERMES Mail for Mac.

I'm not in a position to try doing anything with my email in August. I have significant contracts I'm working on and any disruption could be very serious. I'll catch up with you in November.
--
Rick C.
-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Ignataz]

Well, we've got even more screenshots if anyone's curious. It's pretty much a drop-in replacement (really, it's a continuation, so Eudora 7.3), so everything carries over.

Screenshots?

What would be more re-assuring is confirmation the project was able to license the libraries it needs -- the ones that are not open source.

[Jim H]

On Tue, 31 May 2022 17:27:15 -0700 (PDT), in

Post by Ignataz
Any opinions about this?
Nick Werner-Matavka
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hermes-mail-8-0-the-final-stretch/x/22716233#/
We have a "price" of $70 Am. per seat; anything more than that goes to support the further development of the project
I've contributed very modestly in the past and I am, of course grateful there is a prospect for it to be updated.
But I am surprised by the lack of commercial and developer interest. Many (many!) more modest and obscure projects get the support they need.
Eudora needs multiple dedicated developers, support for bug fixes and installation -- you know, like a real product. Port it, make an enterprise version, keep up with Windows editions (11 is here!) and Google authentication (is nigh!). The value of a new version without the promise of continued support is dubious.
- Charles

I'm grateful for the update to QCSSL (OpenSSL), but as for the rest
I'm not sure much has been achieved other than getting most of the old
Qualcomm code to compile. The result isn't as good, or as complete, as
the original Eudora with the Hermes OpenSSL fix applied. But in
fairness... "complete" requires libraries that Qualcomm wasn't legally
able to distribute when they released the Eudora source. And with a
few bug fixes to the original Eudora made by patching the original
Eudora.exe - namely proper MID creation, a fix to truncated attachment
names, and several more I never encountered that are too convoluted
for me to describe - the original Eudora life span seems to have been
extended.

Granted performance of the original with GMail and Yahoo and any
others from among the few pushing what I'd call overly complicated
authentication is problematic, but once the confusing workaround they
offer is set Eudora still works. Personally my solution to GMail or
Yahoo would be to dump them. I did dump Yahoo, never used GMail more
than it took to decide it wasn't worth what it cost. (That's sarcasm
for those who need some help.) GMail filters on email body content and
is responsible for a huge number of false positives in the spam folder
while doing NOTHING to stop spam sent by their own customers.

In summary... maybe Hermes will one day be the equivalent of a bug
fixed Eudora, with future enhancements - tho I'm hard pressed to name
anything I need - but at present I haven't seen anything that warms
the heart of this original Eudora user to the tune of $70. And I'm not
sure what it means that $70 pays for a seat while any extra above that
goes toward improvement.

Tell me in clear terms what functionality has been lost from the
original Eudora, what original Eudora bugs have been fixed, what
problems - old and new - are present, and a timeline for fixing them,
etc., and it would be a lot easier to make a decision, but hearing
that Hermes compiles and is about to enter alpha testing isn't
exciting to this user of a paid up old Qualcomm Eudora.

An Apple version? I'm all for it only if contributors have a choice of
checking their support for Windows or Apple and that choice is
strictly observed by the developers.

And where I may be confused/incorrect above... if there had been some
clear progress reports along the way maybe I wouldn't be.

JimH