Eudora v.s. Outlook/Outlook Express

Post by Mrkeneed
A collegue of mine recomended that I use Eudora due to the fact that
it is much safer than outlook - I guess from a virus and hacker
standpoint?
Can anybody ellaborate?

Do a simple google search and you'll see the connection. Microsoft has not bothered with user
security much over the years, and because Microsoft is such an ass of a company, it's the
frequent target of worms, viruses, and spam. Microsoft allows worms and viruses easy entry
into your system by allowing them to be attached to emails, macros, files, and just about
anything. Once it's opened or executed, by virtue of the "way" Windows is built, the virus has free
rein to your system, and soon you're reformatting your HD.

Therefore, use Eudora or anything but a Microsoft email client and lower your probability of
being a victim of the next hacker. It's that simple, but for more go to google and type in "outlook
virus" and be overwhelmed.

- phd

Mrkeneed

2004-01-10 15:21:53 UTC

Thanks!!!

Mrkeneed

2004-01-10 15:22:47 UTC

I appreciate your insight!!! I am sold I am going to buy eudora today!!
On a side note, is there a way to move my address book from outlook over to
eudora - or does microsoft make this a tough process?

Han

2004-01-10 15:29:44 UTC

Post by Mrkeneed
I appreciate your insight!!! I am sold I am going to buy eudora today!!
On a side note, is there a way to move my address book from outlook
over to eudora - or does microsoft make this a tough process?

You could use the free version at first, and pay only if you really like
it. It is the same download (save a copy of the downloaded file on CD).

Apparently there are some gotcha's, such as Outlook has to running, but I
only remember this from seeing posts on the subject (google is your
friend), not from experience.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Katrina Knight

2004-01-13 23:39:18 UTC

Post by Mrkeneed
On a side note, is there a way to move my address book from outlook over to
eudora - or does microsoft make this a tough process?

When you install Eudora, be sure to install the importers. Then go to File
| import in Eudora and tell it you want to import your address book from
Outlook. You can import messages that way too, although if you do, it is
best to do it with everything except Eudora and Outlook closed. It is
generally best to have Outlook running when you do the import for
messages. I'm not sure that it makes a difference with address books
though.

--
Katrina

Dick Brown

2004-01-18 11:34:24 UTC

Post by PhilosopherDog/PhD

Post by Mrkeneed
A collegue of mine recomended that I use Eudora due to the fact that
it is much safer than outlook - I guess from a virus and hacker
standpoint?
Can anybody ellaborate?

Do a simple google search and you'll see the connection. Microsoft has not bothered with user
security much over the years, and because Microsoft is such an ass of a company, it's the
frequent target of worms, viruses, and spam. Microsoft allows worms and viruses easy entry
into your system by allowing them to be attached to emails, macros, files, and just about
anything. Once it's opened or executed, by virtue of the "way" Windows is built, the virus has free
rein to your system, and soon you're reformatting your HD.
Therefore, use Eudora ? or anything but a Microsoft email client ? and lower your probability of
being a victim of the next hacker. It's that simple, but for more go to google and type in "outlook
virus" and be overwhelmed.
- phd

phd - I think you are overstating the risks of using an MS Email
Client due to your obvious dislike for MS. Yes, it is true that every
hacker and virus writer targets MS products because they are in the
majority. We have used Outlook Express for years, on a number of
critical computers, first under NT and now W2K and still use it today
as our main email client. We keep our machines updated with the
latest patches, use Norton Anti Virus and Zone Alarm. We have never
had an infected computer because we don't open attachments that we
don't know. We get maybe 50 virus a day in our mail but they all get
harmlessly deleted by Norton.

That said Eudora is a fine Email Client and we run it on a few
machines, including my own laptop as a second client to store email in
case of a failure of OE. It does a good job and it will give good
service to anyone who chooses it.

In business today there is more and more email being sent in RTF and
that is why we are using OE. Eudora does a good job with RTF, as does
PocoMail but OE is superior in interfacing with MS Office.

Dick

Katrina Knight

2004-01-19 20:57:23 UTC

Post by Dick Brown
phd - I think you are overstating the risks of using an MS Email
Client due to your obvious dislike for MS. Yes, it is true that every
hacker and virus writer targets MS products because they are in the
majority.

And because MS leaves a lot of security holes for them to work with.

Post by Dick Brown
We have used Outlook Express for years, on a number of
critical computers, first under NT and now W2K and still use it today
as our main email client. We keep our machines updated with the
latest patches, use Norton Anti Virus and Zone Alarm. We have never
had an infected computer because we don't open attachments that we
don't know.

You're using software apart from OE that protects you. If you weren't
using that, there is a good chance that you would have become infected by
something at some point. The fact that antivirus software prevents viruses
from infecting you doesn't negate the fact that OE is not a secure
product. You're still vulnerable to any new virus that comes along and
exploits an unpatched flaw before your AV software gets updated or the
flaw is patched. Most people don't get new viruses before there is an
update for their AV software, but there are always some people who will do
so. I've seen two computers that were infected within 48 hours of a virus
being discovered. The people involved did not open any attachments or
anything obviously unsafe. They just made the mistake of using vulnerable
software.

Using OE without AV software is very risky. Using it with AV software is
slightly more risky than using Eudora without AV software. (Assuming you
don't intentionally do something to get yourself infected.) I don't worry
too much about people who run good AV software and a good firewall as well
as staying up to date with all of MS's patches, especially if they have
some knowledge of security issues and how to handle them. For the average
user who brings home a computer and turns it on and starts using OE with
no knowledge of security issues, OE is a terrible risk though.

Post by Dick Brown
In business today there is more and more email being sent in RTF and
that is why we are using OE.

Are you sure you don't mean html rather than rtf?

--
Katrina

Steevareeno

2004-01-20 13:08:22 UTC

And because MS leaves a lot of security holes for them to work with.

I also used to be intimidated by Viruses, in fact that alone is the reason I
initially stopped using Outlook express,
the reason was that when we had a bad spate of viruses some time last year,
I kept getting viruses
that automatically would run on Outlook express 5, and that was without
opening up the attachment!! I was mortified....
Then I worked out how to close the preview pain, that helped, but even then
their were still viruses getting through
All Without me Opening up the Attachment.
I had the freeware version of AVG on my computer and it did not stop
them..for some unknown reason.......
I think that my Outlook express 5 was probably more vulnerable because I was
running windows 98 Second Edition and I had not worked out how to
update it with all the updates..or the major updates..So perhaps that had
something to do with it.
If you are a newbie user, just working your way around the net, it is
difficult to jump straight into knowing about all the security patches,
updates and all that...type of thing. Now that I have done all that, and
combined with the fact I have Outlook 2000 this is about my second day of
using it and so far, so good.

Post by Katrina Knight
You're using software apart from OE that protects you. If you weren't
using that, there is a good chance that you would have become infected by
something at some point. The fact that antivirus software prevents viruses
from infecting you doesn't negate the fact that OE is not a secure
product.

Is it a fair comment to say that Microsoft products are having spent a
proportionately "less amount of time
and investment" on making their products secure when compared to other
products. Or, is it that the majority of
virus writters target microsoft and not other companies like Courier/The Bat
etc.etc.

You're still vulnerable to any new virus that comes along and

Post by Katrina Knight
exploits an unpatched flaw before your AV software gets updated or the
flaw is patched. Most people don't get new viruses before there is an
update for their AV software, but there are always some people who will do
so. I've seen two computers that were infected within 48 hours of a virus
being discovered. The people involved did not open any attachments or
anything obviously unsafe. They just made the mistake of using vulnerable
software.

I would be extremely interested to know if by just "using certain software"
you actually attract more viruses to your
computer.

I mean to say, if I have an email address at ***@yahoo.co.uk and I
use an outlook express client to download that and send mail from that
pop account, then compare that to using something like Eudora or Calypso
under the same circumstances, is their anyway that I will recieve more
infected email viruses to that email address or not?

common sense would say no, but I know that Email Client software leaves its
names in your headers...so then do some viruses go through peoples email and
specifically look for email addresses that have been sent by "Outlook
Express"? or "outlook"?
I am assuming that this is not the case.

Post by Katrina Knight
Using OE without AV software is very risky. Using it with AV software is
slightly more risky than using Eudora without AV software. (Assuming you
don't intentionally do something to get yourself infected.) I don't worry
too much about people who run good AV software and a good firewall as well
as staying up to date with all of MS's patches, especially if they have
some knowledge of security issues and how to handle them. For the average
user who brings home a computer and turns it on and starts using OE with
no knowledge of security issues, OE is a terrible risk though.

This is exactly what I did, and that is "exactly" the problem that I had,
you have
illustrated it perfectly. After being forced to learn about viruses and
security issues the
hardway only now am I happy with dealing and preventing viruses.

Post by Dick Brown
In business today there is more and more email being sent in RTF and
that is why we are using OE.

Are you sure you don't mean html rather than rtf?

What is the difference between RTF and HTML? I know they are different
files, but are they not
linked somehow? Eg. if you send an HTML file will it not be interperated as
an RTF file by some clients?

Post by Katrina Knight
--
Katrina

PhilosopherDog/PhD

2004-01-20 23:15:25 UTC

Post by Steevareeno
If you are a newbie user, just working your way around the net, it is
difficult to jump straight into knowing about all the security patches,
updates and all that...type of thing. Now that I have done all that, and
combined with the fact I have Outlook 2000 this is about my second day of
using it and so far, so good.
Is it a fair comment to say that Microsoft products are having spent a
proportionately "less amount of time and investment" on making their
products secure when compared to other products.

And for that matter, Microsoft just has improved OE over the years (much like Excel). But
fortunately there are more email clients available to users today than ever. For sheer simplicity,
the one I like best is Fox Mail. For usability, Eudora just being able to hit CTRL+R and type my
reply in the Preview Pane is one of its simple pleasures, and I know of no other major email
client which does the same thing in the same way.

You're right, it's easy to rag on Microsoft. But with Eudora now available in three modes even
free there's no reason not to try Eudora against OE. And no reason not to to use unless you
just don't like the interface, since it's highly customizable.

- phd

Rick

2004-01-21 00:15:06 UTC

Post by PhilosopherDog/PhD

And for that matter, Microsoft just has improved OE over the years (much like Excel). But
fortunately there are more email clients available to users today than ever. For sheer simplicity,
the one I like best is Fox Mail. For usability, Eudora — just being able to hit CTRL+R and type my
reply in the Preview Pane is one of its simple pleasures, and I know of no other major email
client which does the same thing in the same way.
You're right, it's easy to rag on Microsoft. But with Eudora now available in three modes — even
free — there's no reason not to try Eudora against OE. And no reason not to to use unless you
just don't like the interface, since it's highly customizable.
- phd

You might want to check Google for a program that might make your posts
more readable. Check for OE Quote fix. It'll stop thos nasty 1/4 lines
you keep generating. <g>

Rick

--
Food has replaced sex in my life....
now I can't even get into my own pants!

Katrina Knight

2004-01-22 16:04:41 UTC

Post by Steevareeno
I think that my Outlook express 5 was probably more vulnerable because I was
running windows 98 Second Edition and I had not worked out how to
update it with all the updates..or the major updates..So perhaps that had
something to do with it.

Yes, that would have been part of the problem. OE 5 without patches would
be a vulnerable to more than a patched version of OE 5 or a newer version.
MS releases security updates for both Windows and OE on a fairly frequent
basis.

This is a distinct problem. The people most likely to be using vulnerable
programs are exactly the people least likely to know that they are
vulnerable.

Post by Steevareeno
Is it a fair comment to say that Microsoft products are having spent a
proportionately "less amount of time
and investment" on making their products secure when compared to other
products. Or, is it that the majority of
virus writters target microsoft and not other companies like Courier/The Bat
etc.etc.

I'd say some of both. I don't th ink they care enough about making their
products secure before releasing them, and they are definitely targeted
for a variety of reasons.

Post by Steevareeno
I would be extremely interested to know if by just "using certain software"
you actually attract more viruses to your
computer.
use an outlook express client to download that and send mail from that
pop account, then compare that to using something like Eudora or Calypso
under the same circumstances, is their anyway that I will recieve more
infected email viruses to that email address or not?

I don't think the email client you use is likely to be somethign that
viruses are looking at. I do think that which ISP you're using may make
some difference.

--
Katrina

Steevareeno

2004-01-22 19:02:59 UTC

snip
and I

Post by Steevareeno
use an outlook express client to download that and send mail from that
pop account, then compare that to using something like Eudora or Calypso
under the same circumstances, is their anyway that I will recieve more
infected email viruses to that email address or not?

I don't think the email client you use is likely to be somethign that
viruses are looking at. I do think that which ISP you're using may make
some difference.
--
Katrina

Thanks very much Katrina, seems you have a nice reputation for helping
people out! Seems the learning
process involved with IT is never really ending.

Dick Brown

2004-01-20 13:25:22 UTC

And because MS leaves a lot of security holes for them to work with.

You're using software apart from OE that protects you. If you weren't
using that, there is a good chance that you would have become infected by
something at some point. The fact that antivirus software prevents viruses
from infecting you doesn't negate the fact that OE is not a secure
product. You're still vulnerable to any new virus that comes along and
exploits an unpatched flaw before your AV software gets updated or the
flaw is patched. Most people don't get new viruses before there is an
update for their AV software, but there are always some people who will do
so. I've seen two computers that were infected within 48 hours of a virus
being discovered. The people involved did not open any attachments or
anything obviously unsafe. They just made the mistake of using vulnerable
software.
Using OE without AV software is very risky. Using it with AV software is
slightly more risky than using Eudora without AV software. (Assuming you
don't intentionally do something to get yourself infected.) I don't worry
too much about people who run good AV software and a good firewall as well
as staying up to date with all of MS's patches, especially if they have
some knowledge of security issues and how to handle them. For the average
user who brings home a computer and turns it on and starts using OE with
no knowledge of security issues, OE is a terrible risk though.

Post by Dick Brown
In business today there is more and more email being sent in RTF and
that is why we are using OE.

Are you sure you don't mean html rather than rtf?

Katrina, I agree with everything you have said above. OE alone is a
very risky situation. Yes I meant html.. must have been dreaming when
I wrote it.

Regarding Eudora 6, I am becoming more familiar with it and slowly
getting used to how to get the best out of it. After being on OE for
so long it take time to break the old habits but I am getting there
with the help of your very useful posts in this forum. There are so
many virus's in the email every morning that I am very nervous, even
with the AV and the Firewall.

Dick
in Jakarta

Steevareeno

2004-01-20 12:55:52 UTC

Post by PhilosopherDog/PhD

Post by Mrkeneed
A collegue of mine recomended that I use Eudora due to the fact that
it is much safer than outlook - I guess from a virus and hacker
standpoint?
Can anybody ellaborate?

Do a simple google search and you'll see the connection. Microsoft has

not bothered with user

Post by PhilosopherDog/PhD
security much over the years, and because Microsoft is such an ass of a company, it's the
frequent target of worms, viruses, and spam. Microsoft allows worms and viruses easy entry
into your system by allowing them to be attached to emails, macros, files, and just about
anything. Once it's opened or executed, by virtue of the "way" Windows

is built, the virus has free

Post by PhilosopherDog/PhD
rein to your system, and soon you're reformatting your HD.
Therefore, use Eudora ? or anything but a Microsoft email client ? and

lower your probability of

Post by PhilosopherDog/PhD
being a victim of the next hacker. It's that simple, but for more go to

google and type in "outlook

Post by PhilosopherDog/PhD
virus" and be overwhelmed.
- phd

I tend to agree, I was at first scared away from outlook express due to the
amount of viruses that I just could not "stop",
I can't not open attachments that are sent, and I was not confident nor
computer savy enough to not be intimidated by them.
I wanted something that was easy to use and didnt automatically get a virus
every time an email arrived..

Now that I am more knowledgable about how to make adjustments to email
clients, and how to make sure that an antivirus is hooked up
to work in conjunction with the mail client, I am not at all worried about
viruses anymore. I think alot of people over worry about viruses as you
point out. I have
often heard people take a dislike to a product simply because it is made by
microsoft and not based on its merits.

Post by Dick Brown
That said Eudora is a fine Email Client and we run it on a few
machines, including my own laptop as a second client to store email in
case of a failure of OE. It does a good job and it will give good
service to anyone who chooses it.
In business today there is more and more email being sent in RTF and
that is why we are using OE. Eudora does a good job with RTF, as does
PocoMail but OE is superior in interfacing with MS Office.

RTF is another issue that is important when considering email clients.

Post by Dick Brown
Dick

meirman

2004-01-21 03:35:55 UTC

In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows on Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:55:52 -0000

Post by Steevareeno
I am not at all worried about
viruses anymore. I think alot of people over worry about viruses as you
point out. I have
often heard people take a dislike to a product simply because it is made by
microsoft and not based on its merits.

That's not just about viruses. They don't like Microsoft because of
the way it behaves in the marketplace, including they think illegally,
for example writing hooks into the operating system so that, while
they told Netscape that they were giving Netscape adequate info to
have their browser hook into the OS, they actually had code to make
Netscape crash occasionally, that didn't affect IE of course. AIUI,
that was the allegation in federal court during the microsoft trial
and there was evidence to back it up. It might even be undisputed.

There was one other example I knew about that botthered me.

Remember that MS lost the suit against it, and the primary reason I
believe it wasn't punished severely is that the Democrats left office
and the Republicans came in. The case I believe was brought by the
dept of Justice which is part of the Executive Branch., and if a
judicial ruling went against them, or even if a motion was filed, the
justice department had discretion about how to proceed. They could
spend 20 hours writing an answer, or allot 5 hours to write an
inferior answer, or they could just negotiate a compromise, even when
their claim was valid and they would have won in court if they spent
20 hours on the answer. The compromise could be 50-50 or it could be
70-30 for microsoft. We're not talking about numbers so it's easy to
say, We thought it was fair.

Meirman

If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.

Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

Steevareeno

2004-01-21 13:00:38 UTC

Post by meirman
In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows on Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:55:52 -0000

Post by Steevareeno
I am not at all worried about
viruses anymore. I think alot of people over worry about viruses as you
point out. I have often heard people take a dislike to a product simply

because it is made by

Post by meirman

Post by Steevareeno
microsoft and not based on its merits.

I hadn't heard about that little episode with Netscape. All types of
practice
is carried on to try to protect or increase market share, ranging from price
cartels, which many
businesses are guilty of, almost every year here in the UK we hear some type
of
multinational that has been involved in some type of anti competitive
practice.
I think anybody who thinks large corporations are beacons of virtue are
slightly naive if I may be so bold.
If we consider microsoft in terms comparable to other large scale
corporations whose practices are scrutinized, you will find
Microsoft is not at all alone. Nike with its child labour, Enron with its
accounting scandle outright fraud, the recent Italian massive fraud (forget
the name),
The occasional Bank that goes bust due to financial mispractice that many of
the top level executives are involved about, Insurance industries involved
in many miselling practices where mortgages were not at all worth what the
clients had been told/promised..etc.etc.etc.
The list goes on and on, these are just what I can recall from memory. In
the UK we had a massive Polypeck problem with Abduz Nazeer who had a massive
massive fraud case against millions of people..in the UK in the eightees.
So my point is only that, yes, I agree with what you say, Microsoft is
definitely involved in anti competitive practices, and also they are unfair
as well, but does that effect the quality of their products?
Another issue is one of making products utilize only one type of proprietary
file so that it cannot be used/opened by others therefore trying to lock the
market up. That also can be considered anti competitive but all types of
software makers use this ruse. The questions is really, where is the line
drawn between sharp business practice and totaly unacceptable behavior.
Hopefully that is what the corporations and other organizations are for.
Another example of unfair practice are numerous instances of Governments
using unfair practices to protect their home market.

Post by meirman
There was one other example I knew about that botthered me.
Remember that MS lost the suit against it, and the primary reason I
believe it wasn't punished severely is that the Democrats left office
and the Republicans came in. The case I believe was brought by the
dept of Justice which is part of the Executive Branch., and if a
judicial ruling went against them, or even if a motion was filed, the
justice department had discretion about how to proceed. They could
spend 20 hours writing an answer, or allot 5 hours to write an
inferior answer, or they could just negotiate a compromise, even when
their claim was valid and they would have won in court if they spent
20 hours on the answer. The compromise could be 50-50 or it could be
70-30 for microsoft. We're not talking about numbers so it's easy to
say, We thought it was fair.
Meirman
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

meirman

2004-01-21 03:40:56 UTC

In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows on Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:55:52 -0000

I forgot one paragraph.

If you thought you were dealing with a gangster, would your first
concern would be, Does his product work well? or would it be Can I
get something like this somewhere else so I don't have to deal with a
gangster?

If one doesn't think they are that bad, compare it to buying lemonade
from a little neighbor girl who is always polite and respectful versus
one who fights with the other neighbor children or lies when she is
talked to. Who would you deal with?

Meirman

If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.

Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

Steevareeno

2004-01-21 13:05:41 UTC

Post by meirman
In comp.mail.eudora.ms-windows on Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:55:52 -0000

Yes I do take your point, and I would definitely prefer not to deal with the
Gangster,
in fact it would also depend on whether or not one could readily find the
product required and
what the importance and necessity of that product.

If we were talking about a basic requirement such as that pertaining to food
or shelter or other
essentials then yes we would probably buy from a gangster if we had to.

Post by meirman
If one doesn't think they are that bad, compare it to buying lemonade
from a little neighbor girl who is always polite and respectful versus
one who fights with the other neighbor children or lies when she is
talked to. Who would you deal with?
Meirman

That is a very good and colourful analogy, well in that situation I truly
would quench my thirst with the
lemonade from the nice child who was allways polite.

Post by meirman
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

p***@gmail.com

2019-03-01 08:41:05 UTC